| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Laurie
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 739
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Urine Alley Memories and History |
 |
|
Sharing some history and memories.
In the 1990's MPNA, local businesses and Main Street worked together to clean up Urine Alley. Ah, the good old days when we all worked together!
| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
Urine Alley PIctures.pdf |
| Filesize: |
811.64 KB |
| Downloaded: |
336 Time(s) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
apl
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Urine alley |
|
|
| Things are better back there. But sadly, the alley is becoming a urinal once again because one of the houses on it insists on taking any lock placed on the gate. I presume these are the same friendly folks who vandalized the gate by cutting out one of the bars.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4399
Location: 19th & Lamont
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Urine alley |
|
|
| apl wrote: | | Things are better back there. But sadly, the alley is becoming a urinal once again because one of the houses on it insists on taking any lock placed on the gate. I presume these are the same friendly folks who vandalized the gate by cutting out one of the bars. |
This has been brought up at the ANC, requesting an endorsement of the gate, but with the explicit proviso that the gate not be locked. We are wondering:
(1) how effective is this gate, if it's not locked?
(2) is it appropriate to close off a public alley with a locked gate?
(3) what do the men deterred by the gate do? don't they just take their nasty behavior to other favored locations?
The resolution has been tabled to give commissioners time to consider these aspects of the problem.
-- Jack
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
denisew
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 162
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: locked gate |
|
|
Whether or not one of the houses doesn't want a lock is irrelevant. The Fire Department, on a complaint from La Casa determined that the gates could not be locked due to the fact that one of their fire exits was into the alley. If eveyone adjoining the alley agrees, you could petition the surveyor to have the alley formally closed with easements to all adjacent property owners (and the utilities). As long as it is "public" and has Pepco lighting it needs to be kept open.
My favorite memory is when David put the urinal onto his rain drain creating a flush system.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laurie
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 739
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| True Denise, but the Fire Department have the ability to cut the locks in an emergency. The issue right now though is not with the lock--it's with the gate--someone contacted Graham's office and DDOT last November and decided they wanted the gates removed. Right now there is a cease and desist that the city cannot remove the gates.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4399
Location: 19th & Lamont
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Urine alley |
|
|
| jack wrote: | This has been brought up at the ANC, requesting an endorsement of the gate, but with the explicit proviso that the gate not be locked. We are wondering:
(1) how effective is this gate, if it's not locked?
(2) is it appropriate to close off a public alley with a locked gate?
(3) what do the men deterred by the gate do? don't they just take their nasty behavior to other favored locations?
The resolution has been tabled to give commissioners time to consider these aspects of the problem. |
A correction, my motion that the resolution be tabled while we investigated the situation further, in particular the locking of the gate, failed, on a three to three tie vote. Then the resolution by Dave Bossermann to DDOT advising that the gate be kept, but not locked, failed of passage on a three to three vote. (Oliver, Dave, and Jane voting “yes”, Jack, Gregg, and Stormy voting “no".)
-- Jack
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laurie
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 739
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This issue is in DC Superior Court--your resolution isn't relevant.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dwight
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 310
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jack: So you don't support even an unlocked gate?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4399
Location: 19th & Lamont
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: Gate |
|
|
| Dwight wrote: | | Jack: So you don't support even an unlocked gate? |
It wasn't clear whether the gate was locked or unlocked; both opinions were expressed. Given the uncertainty, I couldn't support the resolution. I wanted the motion tabled so that we could establish the facts.
That said, I believe the ANC would prefer to see a real solution to the problem, not one that, at best, simply pushes the problem onto some other alley or secluded corner.
-- Jack
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laurie
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 739
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think Dwight is saying that you didn't support the resolution by Dave Bossermann to DDOT advising that the gate be kept, but not locked.
How does that push the problem onto some other alley or secluded corner? Seems to me that supporting the status quo would do no such thing.
And what problem are we trying to solve by keeping the status quo?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4399
Location: 19th & Lamont
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Kilbourne alley gate |
|
|
| Laurie wrote: | I think Dwight is saying that you didn't support the resolution by Dave Bossermann to DDOT advising that the gate be kept, but not locked.
How does that push the problem onto some other alley or secluded corner? Seems to me that supporting the status quo would do no such thing.
And what problem are we trying to solve by keeping the status quo? |
If the gate, locked or unlocked, mitigates the problem, then those who would use the alley for urination evidently are deterred by the gate. Do they then go find a proper urinal? I doubt it. Could be they just make their way to your alley. -- Jack
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laurie
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 739
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Do they then go find a proper urinal? I doubt it. Could be they just make their way to your alley. -- Jack |
If the alley pissers have made their way to your alley, they've been doing it for 11 years now and no one has noticed  .
But the point of the resolution wasn't about someone finding a proper urinal; the resolution was (1) whether to keep the gate and (2) whether to keep the gate with or without the lock. Since every single resident who lives along that alley initiated support and desire for the gate, we as a community, along with MPNA, have supported their request in keeping the gate whether it is locked or unlocked.
That's what true community is all about. It's so typical of this ANC to muck up something so simple.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4399
Location: 19th & Lamont
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Kilbourne alley gate |
|
|
| Laurie wrote: | But the point of the resolution wasn't about someone finding a proper urinal; the resolution was (1) whether to keep the gate and (2) whether to keep the gate with or without the lock. Since every single resident who lives along that alley initiated support and desire for the gate, we as a community, along with MPNA, have supported their request in keeping the gate whether it is locked or unlocked.
That's what true community is all about. It's so typical of this ANC to muck up something so simple. |
Such issues are "simple" only if viewed from a single point of view. The gate's supposed to be unlocked, but what if somebody surreptitiously uses a bicycle lock to lock it, as has happened? Do we not create, inadvertently, a significant fire hazard? What about the wire loop currently used on the gate, is that a sufficient impediment as to disqualify this alley as an emergency fire exit? What about members of the public who would like to use that alley for reasonable, legitimate purposes? Are there better ways to prevent illicit activities in this alley? What right do residents have to gate off any alley, restricting public access to this public space? As for those who would use this location for a urinal, is their behavior corrected by the gate, or do they just take their disgusting activity somewhere else? Is it legitimate to solve one resident's problem at the expense of another resident? Would it be proper for the ANC to endorse an action which is contrary to District law?
A simple matter? No, not at all. -- Jack
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dwight
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 310
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You are probably right, let's just study it to death and wait for world peace.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dreabee
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 27
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What about putting motion-sensored flood lights back there? Would that mitigate the problem without having to gate off the alley?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
