Mount Pleasant DC Forum

jack · Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 4399 Location: 19th & Lamont

I encountered Gustavo Velasquez, head of the Office on Latino Affairs, and discussed with him our misbehavior problem at the 7-11. He says they're dealing with a very similar situation at 15th and P, and are making progress that improving that situation. He wasn't aware of our 7-11 matter, and will have someone in his office investigate it, to see what might be done here to eliminate the behavior problems.

-- Jack

Bart · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 14

I hope Velasquez doesn’t suffer the same fate of all the other “police officers” that go into that 7-11. That’s right, the black hole vortex of the magazine rack that DC PD just can’t seem to get enough of.

I think I would make much greater strides with this problem by continually complaing to 7-11 corporate until they send a rep down to the store to tell the owner that he must enforce the no loitering sign and also not let the public use their restrooms.

TracyM · Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 28

Thanks, Jack, for the clear and reasoned replies. I agree that the behavior of some of these men is the problem, not their presence. I'm a woman who has lived in MtP for over five years, and I hate the street harrassment, though it has improved. It used to be like running a gauntlet.

The majority of the time I have no trouble with the 7-11 crowd. I am uncomfortable with these guys being lumped together as if they're all creeps. Most of the time they leave me alone, drink their coffee, and chat with neighbors (including women). Sure, some of them are a problem, and that needs to be dealt with, but my bigger concern is being able to walk down any block of Mt P St without hearing "Hola Mami!" Gross. -- Tracy

jack · Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 4399 Location: 19th & Lamont

antibalas · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7

Wow you cats are trippin'! I came to this webboard to see what was going on in the neighborhood but what I found out is that there are a lot of silly scared folk wondering around where they obviously shouldn't be since they feel so threatened. Instead of complaining about people (read poor and brown) and trying to make the streets safe for white women, because let's be honest here that is who we are talking about being harassed, why don't focus your energy on affecting positive change in the community without involving the police.

But hey we all have our issues! Maybe I should start going your route and complain about all the drunk folks coming out of Tonic and running into me (actually making physical contact with my body) when I' walking home from a late evening at work or with dinner for my family. Maybe I should start a discussion board to work on finding a solution to the blatantly bad behavior of my white neighbors who insist on making racially insensitive comments in my presence or who choose to ignore my presence or pretend I am invisible when I am waiting in line to at Heller's. Heaven forbid I should stand between these folks and caffine!

Maybe I should ask your advice! Do you recommend that I call Heller's and suggest to the management that their employees pay better attention and not serve busters first? Should I call the police and report the bad manners that make ME feel unsafe?

Oh yeah that's right that system was not created to work in favor of my people. So I have to actually confront these people or let it go! I have to work for positive change or I have to shut up and put up! Ahhh the struggle continues.

Irving St & 17th · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 50

PRN · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 114

If anyone has a problem with drunk and disorderly people coming out of Tonic or anywhere else on Mt. Pleasant street they certainly should complain to the police, management, ANC or wherever. Drunk and disorderly conduct that affects others is unacceptable. As far as Heller's - their lines and service in the morning can be hectic - but given the diversity of the Staff and the neighborhood it borders on laughable to suggest that any preference is given to particular races. If someone busts in line in front of you complain about it - I certainly have.

Implying that people are racist does not address the problem at hand - it is simply misdirection and furthermore suggests that somehow only white people care about civil public behavior. I am certain - as I have discussed this with neighbors and friends of all races - that drunken disorderly conduct - whether in front of the 7-11 or from patrons of Tonic or any other bar/restraunt on Mt Pleasant Street is equally unacceptable to Mt Pleasant's white, african american and latino neighbors. To suggest otherwise is racist in itself.

Lance A.

antibalas · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7

Hmmm apparently I have not done a good job of explaining myself so let me make myself perfectly clear. I am not lonely and seeking attention at the bakery. I do not consider people not speaking to me, especially if I have not spoken to them, rude much less harassment So I’m going to break it down for you . . . I’m going to talk about race so try to follow this time. On many occasions at Heller’s I have had people (aka the busters from my last post) cut in front of me when I am actually walking up to order, say not a word to me, and proceed to order as though I were invisible. I try to be vigilant and ask others who were there before me and are waiting it they have ordered because a lot of times there is not a clearly defined line.

And I understand that this may not seem like a big deal to you but as a person of color it’s a big deal to me when someone who is white blatantly disrespects me. I'm not saying that this is the responsibility of anyone working at Heller's and If Heller’s were the only place where this happened then maybe I would just chalk it up to the lack of an organized line. But this is not the only place it happens and I’d have to say that every single time this happens it is white people to whom I become invisible. It's a small thing that but it wears So what does that say? To me it is a symptom of the racism that is inherent in our society.

Let me give another example. I was with a group of kids at festival this spring we were waiting in line to order lunch (apparently my life is spent waiting in food lines) Anyway the young men I was with could not see the menu so I sent them around figure out what they wanted so they would be ready when it was their turn to order. My boys (all Black and Latino) were trying see the menu when the lady (white) in front of us was asked if she was ready to order to which she responded “If THEY learn how to stand in line. Where do THESE PEOPLE get off? Don’t THEY teach THESE CHILDREN how to behave?” The (white) server did an excellent job at defusing the situation but the kids had already heard and were crushed. All I could tell them was that there are many adults who don’t know better. To add insult to injury earlier this same woman had sent the two children who were with her to check out the drink selection.

So back to institutionalized racism . . . what gave this woman cause to have such a reaction? It was nothing that the kids did they had done nothing different than her own children had done. It was her perception of the boys (who were 10 and 11 years old) as people of color. I’m sure if you asked her she say that she is most certainly not a racist. After all she was not wearing a hood, burning a cross, nor waving a confederate flag. She did not use any racial slurs when speaking about THESE CHILDREN. But her meaning was quite clear. Her perception and therefore her response were predicated on the institutionalized racism inherent in this society. Which is unfortunate because that wrong-headedness has us all on lock.

What does this have to do with our neighborhood? Many of these posts have been thin veils so foucused on the behavior of one group of people that you do not see the bad behavior of others. It seems ok that at times drunk white people are running into people outside of Tonic or that at times women may have to walk through groups of drunk white males outside of Tonic. And It’s ok that white people can and make racially insensitive remarks within earshot of people of color. It’s okay that someone like myself is invisible until we step out of line and make you nervous. If you must be afraid, fear your selective blindness. It is a risk to us all.

So now the question is how do we deal with ALL of these issues in an honest and productive manner so that all people feel safe and valued?
I don't believe police action will net the result you desire unless or course the desired result is a show of power. Maybe it's time for some creative problem solving. Any takers?

Oh and just for clarification POWER + RACIAL PREJUDICE = RACISM.

paully65us · Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 35

I am sick and tired of black people using a 'victim' mentality to justify their own racism. antibalas talks about white people this and white drunk people coming out of Tonic and white people are all racists... antibalas is just as racist as the white people they are talking about.

PRN makes much more sense in the post before which addresses the problem without singling out any race.

BWS · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 2

Although it may have been a little harsh Antibalas has a point and I find it disturbing that her comments were instantly dismissed by 2/3’s of the responders right away, and not even taken into consideration because of the idea planted in their head that this is just some more “black people using the victim mentality.” It is just sad that it instantly comes to this when someone who is a minority has a legitimate complaint. They instantly get categorized as “angry” or as a minority that is “victimizing themselves.” I am a minority myself and whether you believe it or not Antibalas’ feelings are REAL, and they do not just appear out of thin air. such things, yet subtle happen all of the time. The lady at Heller’s may not have even realized that she was being prejudice but she was, and that effects people, especially children and those who experience this type of thing all of the time. You would have to be naive to believe that people in general do not judge people based on how they look.
So why would Antibalas bring this up in this discussion of people hanging out and harassing people in front of 7-11? Well I have been visiting these boards for a long time and there has never been a mention of drunk (yes mostly white) people hanging around outside of Tonic or Raven. Although I am a man I can see how a women or anyone for that matter could be a little nervous walking through all of this at night. I have walked by(even been coming out of the bar myself) and heard or seen people saying things to people just walking by who really didn’t want anything to do with the situation(much like you have seen outside of 7-11 sometimes). Although I actually haven’t witnessed a person being harassed by someone in front of 7-11, I can see how it can happen just like I (have seen) can see how it could happen in front of Tonic. So why not discuss both?
I understand her comments may be hard for some of you to see, or grasp, or care about but she was complaining about things in the neighborhood just like you were. So please don’t dismiss it! I know it is a different perspective from what has already been discussed here on this board but her feelings/experiences here are just valid as yours.

Irving St & 17th · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 50

I think it's telling that Antibalas assumed without any knowledge that the people on this board are all white. Talk about pre-judging.

I seriously doubt that most people who live in MTP would have moved here if they are racists.

jack · Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 4399 Location: 19th & Lamont

PRN · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 114

This issue has nothing to do with whether people are african american, latino or white. Antibalas said she was bumped into - not good - it is not clear from her comments if she was harrassed. If she was - it is unacceptable. No-one up until this point has complained about drunken behaviour in front of Tonic. Even the complaints about 7-11 aren't about drinking per se but harrassment of passers by. If there is a problem with public behaviour and harrassment of people passing by Tonic then those perpetrators should be treated no differently than the folks in front of Tonic. So - the question is - is there a problem similar in degree and seriousness at Tonic as well. If so - it should be treated similarly.

As far as the comments by Antibalas and BWS - while it is clear the behaviour described was perceived as race based by Antibalas, and it may well have been, rude uncivil interaction at restraunts and on the street happen all the time - it is just as likely to be the result of bad manners, self-absorption or simply lack of empathy with other people as it is racism.

Note that while those of us complaining about a particular behaviour were characterized as racist alleging that "the white people in front of Tonic are drunk too" is somehow okay. The problem is harrassment of other people not race. I, for one, am tired of folks attempting to create race issues where they don't exist. Without a doubt there is enough discrimination in housing, employment and generally in society that trying to allege and create racist motives where none exist is counter productive. Alleging racism where it doesn't exist is simply a way of changing the subject or attempting discredit a position without addressing its merits.

So - THE ISSUE IS - IS IT ACCEPTABLE FOR DRUNK PEOPLE TO HARRASS PASSERS BY - I don't think so. We know that there is a problem with drunken people harrasing passers by in front of 7-11 - it has gone on to greater or lesser degree for years. According to two posters here it appears that drunk people hang out in front of Tonic - so that raises the question - are they too harrassing people? If so - the same steps should be taken - talk to management at Tonic - ask the police to keep an eye out and see if the ANC can do something about it.

The problem is really pretty simple - it is unacceptable for drunk people to harrass passers by on Mt Pleasant Street. It is irrelevant what race the drunk or the passer by happens to be.

Finally - racism is treating people differently based on their race and assuming that people's behaviour, beliefs and interaction are the result of skin color.

jack · Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 4399 Location: 19th & Lamont