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What does your IDEAL Mount Pleasant look like?
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DCCharles



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like a place that looks a lot like an architechts rendering of something called maybe "Mt. Pleasante Towne Centre." Having the suburbs two blocks away is not enough -- I want a well-scrubbed anodyne development right around the corner.

The best way to achieve this, of course, is to have a bunch of meddlesome neighbors trying to micromanage the local economy -- focusing on issues like whether a table can be moved if people want to dance or the type of fencing around a business's lawn -- and few lame committees with grand sounding names that do little or nothing. We've got those, but they're just a start.

I think harassin poor people is the next logical step. With the singles ban and the fire on Mt. Plerasant street we're partly there, but a Prince William County-like attitude towards day laborers and immigrants would help, as would converting much of the multi-family in the neighborhood into expensive condos.

Once we've moved the poor people out, I'd like to see a boutique or two selling jewelry and clothing that reflects the diversity of the people who've gone away -- kind of like how David Byrne made African rhythms safe for middle-aged hispsters without us having to really experience Africa.

The same logic applies to the grocery stores -- if we want ethnic food, we'll get it from some restaurant, not buy it inexpensively and cook it conveniently ourselves.

I enjoy the iron hand when it comes to limiting the ability of restauranteurs and bar-owners to serve me food and drink at the odd hours my family and I sometimes enjoy. I've been to places that offer late night cafe life and even music -- London, Paris, New York. These places are hell-holes and we should stay as far away from that model as possible. If people can't make a profit based on the rules we impose upon their business, let them open up over in Columbia Heights.

Enough with the dollar stores, auto mechanics, antique stores and gypsies. Who ever said that this was the kind of neighborhood where a small businessman might want to gamble his or her stake on the American dream? Those days are long gone -- if you want to run a business, manage a chain store. We ought to do something about zoning that permits this type of thing.

And finally, we ought to continue to celebrate our diversity. And by diversity, I mean living in the kind of neighborhood where an affluent attorney can live next to an aflfuent journalist next to an affluent attorney who happens to be gay and still find the common ground that permits us to unite against alley-pissing and fast-food chains.

Because that's what makes our neighborhood unique.
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Tina



Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is a funny post, even if it's meant to snipe at people like me, who want to see something different on MtP Street. But if you read my post, I really think that cleaning up and reorganizing what we've already got would go a very long way towards making MtP more attractive to residents and non-residents alike -- and maybe bring new life. My ideal street would look a lot like U Street, which has a lot of chains mixed in with independent, funky stores. Cake Love is awesome, as is its sister store, Love Cafe. There are great clothing boutiques, interesting gift shops, Ethiopian restaurants, and of course I love Busboys.

Plainly, locally-owned, independent boutiques can be wonderful -- I do not automatically equate them with crap. But I think a number of the stores we have are not trying very hard to compete in the changed environment (maybe because, as ClancyMac notes, they might be owner-operated and they couldn't care less about profits) -- and it's to all of our detriment. I don't think we give MtP enough credit if we're saying we shouldn't aspire to have better (and yes, different) services and offerings in our neighborhood. The many vacancies on the street are not just a sign that we have unreasonable landlords, but also that the current mix is not succeeding in the post-DCUSA environment.
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smithdo



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Random thoughts Reply with quote

Tina wrote:
...
Speaking of things I don't understand, how in the world do palm readers make rent on $5 sessions? Are there that many people who rely on these services? ...


ok, I cannot and am not suggesting this is the business model of our local palm reader, but...

In the 1990s in College Park, MD there was a Gypsy/travelers palm reader who worked near the campus. Someone was distraught about a breakup and went to see the palm reader, the palm reader convinced her that her issue was the school loan she got was dirty money, she convinced the girl to withdraw all her money from the bank to be cleaned, when the girl opened up the envelope of cleaned money she saw a wad of newspapers and the fortune teller had moved on, legally renting her location to a new party and stealing thousands of dollars. No one had legal names and the campus newspaper had a long story about how gypsies and or travelers operate. Because racism against Roma Gypsies is prevalent in Europe there is a lot of hesitance to talk about these things as such, but I know in Maryland there was a long history of palm readers conning people out of thousands of dollars and abandoning properties without paying rent.

So, if one doesn't pay rent and one can successfully con someone out of thousands of dollars before relocating to New Jersey the next week and one lives out of a van because one's parents raised them in a van, then you tell me how palm readers can survive on $5 per session. No taxes, no insurance, no housing, seems doable based on the investigations I've read about.

But I need to be perfectly clear that I'm only talking about a series of stories that I read in the UMD campus newspaper about a con played on a woman about 15 years ago and am not suggesting anything about any known or unknown palm reader in our neighborhood.


Last edited by smithdo on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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smithdo



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tina wrote:
...My ideal street would look a lot like U Street, which has a lot of chains mixed in with independent, funky stores. Cake Love is awesome, as is its sister store, Love Cafe. ...


When Warren Brown stopped coming up to the MtP Farmer's Market back in 2004(?) I literally almost cried. I had such high hopes for his potential involvement in MtP.
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smithdo



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tina wrote:
...The many vacancies on the street are not just a sign that we have unreasonable landlords, but also that the current mix is not succeeding in the post-DCUSA environment.


This is the issue that people like DCCharles cannot and will not address because it takes too much brain power and economic analysis. They prefer to joke about the hard issues, because it allows them to forget, for that moment, that they are responsible for positive change in our society.

We live in a world of abundance internationally, but locally there are issues of scarcity:
1. We have limited time in our lives aka, we will all die
2. We have limited commercial real estate on Mt Pleasant St

Therefore, every month that a real estate location is shuttered is quite literally a month of commercial joy that is stolen from me as a member of the community. The owner of this real estate has a legal right to do with it what they want to following DC ordinances, but they do NOT have a moral right to leave the property vacant, robbing all of us of something wonderful and robbing a potential entrepreneur of their future success. Property rights do not exist to encourage property hoarding and every time that occurs the people of the US stand up against it- that is historically true. Property holders who violate the trust of the community see laws levied against them with absolute regularity because nature abhors a vacuum.

Economists (paging Gregg Edwards) will tell you that when property rights trump entrepreneurial development that progress is not made. This is as true for patent trolls as it is for people who refuse to rent their property to entrepreneurs and those who refuse to shut down their tired old businesses and rent to the younger generation. (paging every aging hippy who once wanted change and now needs to have a talk with their peers about stepping aside.)

I had a very personally meaningful exchange with 1960s activist Tom Hayden last year about the problems that plagued Newark, NJ prior to the 1967 riots. This is well-documented in a PBS film called Revolution '67. When the commercial real estate holders and store managers became dislocated from the community they served, tensions built up. Community involvement is the escape valve that allows tensions to recede. To typify that as "meddlesome neighbors" is to question the 1960s civil rights movement that suggested the people have the power.

The community changed at least 10 years ago. I had friends in the neighborhood in 1989, had other friends in the neighborhood in 1992 and I lived here since 1995. The neighborhood is really different than it was in 1993, but many stores have not changed. These stuck-in-the-1980s stores are suffering financially, but they aren't trying to attract new business. WHY?

There are two options:
1. Slow change where new businesses show old businesses "how it's done." To me this might be best represented by Burritos Fast which is a traditional MtP Latin restaurant done in the style of a Burrito Brothers. They have great carryout burritos and if you're a burrito fanatic please give them a chance.
2. Radical change where business owners go broke, get kicked out and a completely new business takes its place. The business owner loses everything and there is upheaval.
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DCCharles



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smithdo wrote:
Tina wrote:
...The many vacancies on the street are not just a sign that we have unreasonable landlords, but also that the current mix is not succeeding in the post-DCUSA environment.


This is the issue that people like DCCharles cannot and will not address because it takes too much brain power and economic analysis. They prefer to joke about the hard issues, because it allows them to forget, for that moment, that they are responsible for positive change in our society.

Oh, please carry your petty economic fascism out to Reston or wherever and, if you ever want to be taken seriously, consider never bringing up your deep conversations with washed-up 60s activists again.

Of course, it's hard not to make jokes about the self-serious types (not excluding myself, mind you) who show up here more than occasionally. But, since you seem to be humor impaired, let me attempt a few simple declarative sentances.

1) Nobody on earth has an obligation to open a commercial establishment to cater to your "commercial joy," or to rent property at a rate lower than they think the marklet will bear. There is no moral position on failure to open a coffee shop; a community's trust lies in operating a legitimate business in a responsible way (won't get into that one here), not in letting you or some committee tell them what do do with their stuff.

2) Economists will tell you anything you want to hear, so holding one out as an authority can be a less-persuasive tactic. Economists, for example, will also tell you that rents ensure that efficient use is made of property -- ensuring that investment goes into firms that can earn a reasonable return. Not that I'm all Chicago School, but having an amateur activist calculate what rents "should" be, rather than letting an entrepreneur and a landlord hash something out is ludicrous.

3) My calling you meddlesome is to question the entire Civil Rights movement? How do you fit your ego into the smallish row-houses that dominate Mt. Pleasant?

4) Have you looked at the books of these "stuck-in-the-80s" stores? How do you know they're struggling? Starbucks "epitome of the aughts"just announced plans to close 600 stores -- I'd be careful to rush judgment. And again, no store is obligated to mold their business plan to your ideals.

5) Again, not to get all free market on you (I'm all for socialized medicine, bro) but the idea of you (or me, or a committee of concerned neighbors) engageing in the detailed managemet of the economic transition of Mt. Pleasant is equal parts ludicrous and frightening. Christ -- it took six(?) years of arguing just to decide to let two bars have dancing.

But wait -- I forgot your first post -- the one where you ethnically cleanse Park Road (so much for The Movement -- I guess people you don't like shouldn't have the power after all) and bring in Dominoes and CVS, and a place to get a $50 haircut.

Hey -- we'd all like to see some more yuppie supply outlets on Mt. Pleasant. And maybe a blues bar. And surely there's transition in the air, as merchants and landlords wait to see what the spillover from DCUSA is going to be. But you know what -- I don't really want to live in a little urban theme park. I want to live in a neighborhood with a little funk and diversity, where garage bands can practice (and play?) and I can hear Spoanish and French on the street, and hit the dollar store for cheap towells when I have out-of-town guests.

You know what enlightened central planning got us? $600 thousand condos and Bed Bath and Beyond, just arounsd the corner. If you can't walk that far, maybe you should consider a nice gated community somewhere. Now that that's taken care of, let's look at how we can keep Mt. Pleasant a little weird.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'm pretty sure of a couple of things: if rents are too high, they'll come down; no committee is going to make Mt. Pleasant into King Street; and a little grunge around the edges is a small price to pay to live someplace cool and unique.

Cheers

And PS -- I need the 7-11 because MAgruders won't sell me smokes at 3AM.
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DCCharles



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Therefore, every month that a real estate location is shuttered is quite literally a month of commercial joy that is stolen from me as a member of the community.

Can we just come back to the "commercial joy" concept for a moment?

I think I believe in it, but in my case, rather than an ethnic restaurant it involves a Platinum Card and an upscale mensware store where the attractive topless salesladies are always willing to knock another 20% of the Armani and serve a chilled White Burgundy while the tailor is measuring me for cuffs.

I am willing to volunteer for any committee working to bring this type of joy to Mt. Pleasant.
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kelly5612



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 264

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCCharles wrote:

1) Nobody on earth has an obligation to open a commercial establishment to cater to your "commercial joy," or to rent property at a rate lower than they think the marklet will bear.


Actually, as a business owner, absolutely I would need to cater to her "commercial joy"...or I wouldn't be in business. Because I really doubt I'd last very long opening up a shop that caters only to my proclivities...unless there's more of a market for homemade pesto, used books and high-heeled boots than I'm guessing.

Regarding prop owners, no one's expecting them to rent at lower-than-market rates; the point is they're currently attempting to rent at rates higher than the market can bear. Hence the -- what? six? -- vacancies on Mt. Pleasant Street. When's the last time anyone saw that?

And yet the shoe repair shop remains. Go figure.
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Eugene



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 53
Location: 3138 17th Street Mount Pleasant

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, DCCharles. If my wife ever discovered I’d been hanging out at the corner haberdashery, y'all would be picking me up with a stick and a spoon.
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DCCharles



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kelly5612 wrote:
DCCharles wrote:

1) Nobody on earth has an obligation to open a commercial establishment to cater to your "commercial joy," or to rent property at a rate lower than they think the marklet will bear.


Actually, as a business owner, absolutely I would need to cater to her "commercial joy"...or I wouldn't be in business. Because I really doubt I'd last very long opening up a shop that caters only to my proclivities...unless there's more of a market for homemade pesto, used books and high-heeled boots than I'm guessing.

Regarding prop owners, no one's expecting them to rent at lower-than-market rates; the point is they're currently attempting to rent at rates higher than the market can bear. Hence the -- what? six? -- vacancies on Mt. Pleasant Street. When's the last time anyone saw that?

And yet the shoe repair shop remains. Go figure.

Yes, you as a business owner have an incentive to cater to what you perceive as potential customer's "commercial joy." However, no landlord is obligated to rent to you so that somebody else's commercial joy can be realized. Nor, for that matter, would you as a business person be obligated to cater to my commercial joy -- or the consensus commercial joy of the neighborhood -- should you determine that a laundromat or other equally joyless establishment would be more profitable. You pay your rent and you sell what you want (within zoning boundaries etc. etc. and no singles Wink ). Surely you're not saying that anything other than your instincts (or detailed studies) and the demands of the market should determine your line of business?

Regarding the rents, barring collusion, your assertion that rents being demanded are too high is no more valid than the landlords' implied assertion that rents being offered are too low. It may be well worth their while to bet a year of vacancy against higher rents after the recession lets up and the vacancies on 14th street all fill in. It may backfire (in which case, having foregone thousands of dollars in rent, they will have been duly punished for the joy they denied us). I'm agnostic, I just distrust blanket assertions by interested parties who haven't seen the numbers on the other side.

Finally -- the really odd thing about the shoe repair is that it never seems to be open. Or is that just my bad luck?
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ClancyMac



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. Random hours for shoe shop. Usually open mid-day on Saturday---although last summer when I attempted to retrieve shoes one saturday I was prevented from doing so by a godalmighty hairpulling, spitting, screaming catfight occurring on the doorstep of the establishment between the owner's sister and his girlfriend. (The whole north end of Mt.P street stood transfixed and watched the spectacle).

Unfortunately, I haven't thought that they have done such a great job on the shoes I've left there. There's a place on 21st right off of P in Dupont run by a guy named Nelson that is much better.
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Mrs. B



Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kelly5612 wrote:
DCCharles wrote:

1) Nobody on earth has an obligation to open a commercial establishment to cater to your "commercial joy," or to rent property at a rate lower than they think the marklet will bear.


Actually, as a business owner, absolutely I would need to cater to her "commercial joy"...or I wouldn't be in business. Because I really doubt I'd last very long opening up a shop that caters only to my proclivities...unless there's more of a market for homemade pesto, used books and high-heeled boots than I'm guessing.

Regarding prop owners, no one's expecting them to rent at lower-than-market rates; the point is they're currently attempting to rent at rates higher than the market can bear. Hence the -- what? six? -- vacancies on Mt. Pleasant Street. When's the last time anyone saw that?

And yet the shoe repair shop remains. Go figure.
The shoe store knows how to cater to commercial joy?
The businesses that currently survive/thrive don't seem to have much appeal to many of the people that post here. I do believe a tryst/diner/busboys establishment would work very well but good luck to the poor fool that tries to get the liquor license given the neighborhood (ahem) activists. A business center much like the one that recently went out of business except with shipping ability would also probably thrive but we need to make sure that the people that work there aren't getting stoned because that would 1. be breaking the law and 2. make it more bearable to do a pretty boring job that doesn't pay a lot.
Losing a dollar store or two wouldn't make me cry except I can't for the life of me think of what would replace them except for another empty store front.
Organic foods, wine & cheese shop, cute crafty store with cards and imported jewelry that supports fair trade, bookstore with coffee that doesn't suck, toystore & baby clothes for all the hipsters with "preshus" offspring that they don't send to Bancroft Rolling Eyes Whatever.
I really can't imagine that we will ever be able to develop the kind of strip that 14th St & U St. have become just because the traffic patterns won't sustain it. I lived on 13th & T for 10 years, always knowing that sooner or later it would hit it big - moved away in '97, came back in '99 and I would not want to be in my previous house for all the great ethnic food/chi chi shops and cool bar revenue in the world. The vibe there sucks. Entitled assholes much? Hope it doesn't happen here too.
Thanks for letting me rant, I feel a bit better now. Embarassed
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Eugene



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 53
Location: 3138 17th Street Mount Pleasant

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The shoe store knows how to cater to commercial joy?


I have a friend who has a beautiful pair of two tone Italian shoes that look like something Ornette Coleman might wear for a performance. My friend decided to get his shoes polished and took them to the shoe repair shop where he dropped them off in the care of an old lady who gave him a hard time, in Spanish, for reasons that made no sense to him. After haranguing him, she took the shoes, gave him a ticket for them, and made it clear that he was to return in three days.

When he returned, he discovered that the wrong color polish had been applied to one of the shoes, though the other hadn’t, fortunately, been touched. He demanded his shoes. She demanded his money. He refused to pay. She refused to return the shoes.

He came back to my house and explained the situation and asked if I had any ideas. I contacted a Salvadorean friend and she and I walked over to the shop to see if we could come to some agreement. After tolerating five minutes of the old lady’s abuse, my Salvadorean friend said, “The problem is not that the old lady doesn’t understand English. The problem is that she’s crazy.”

I convinced my friend to pay the old lady and get his shoes and leave. But now she wouldn’t accept his money. She turned her back to us and sat chatting away with her friend, pretending we didn’t exist. After realizing that her plan was to continue ignoring us until we left, I said, “”M’am, we’ve been reasonable, we’ve been patient, he’s offered to pay you and you still won’t return the shoes. If you return the shoes now, you will not have to pay for the damage that someone has done to the shoes while they were in your possession.” She stopped talking for a moment, looked at me and said “No,” then resumed her conversation.

Fine. I asked my friend if he felt comfortable singing for his shoes. He did, and we began performing full throated a capella versions of every up tempo hymn we knew. After about fifteen minutes his voice started weakening, so I carried on solo and switched to George Jones, which I know a lot better than hymns. I could tell the old lady’s resolve was beginning to waver. Drunks were wandering in to see what the hubbub was, and would be customers were opening the door, then quickly closing it without entering. Finally, after what I thought was a rather good rendition of “He Stopped Loving Her Today,” complete with spoken recitation, I paused and said “M’am, I’m about to crack open the Hank Williams songbook. I expect I have thirty or so of old Hank’s tunes memorized, so I’d advise y’all to get comfortable because this is going to take a while.”

“No,” she said. “No. Take the shoes and leave.” Which we did, after thanking her for returning the shoes.
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Mrs. B



Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene wrote:
Quote:
The shoe store knows how to cater to commercial joy?


I have a friend who has a beautiful pair of two tone Italian shoes that look like something Ornette Coleman might wear for a performance. My friend decided to get his shoes polished and took them to the shoe repair shop where he dropped them off in the care of an old lady who gave him a hard time, in Spanish, for reasons that made no sense to him. After haranguing him, she took the shoes, gave him a ticket for them, and made it clear that he was to return in three days.

When he returned, he discovered that the wrong color polish had been applied to one of the shoes, though the other hadn’t, fortunately, been touched. He demanded his shoes. She demanded his money. He refused to pay. She refused to return the shoes.

He came back to my house and explained the situation and asked if I had any ideas. I contacted a Salvadorean friend and she and I walked over to the shop to see if we could come to some agreement. After tolerating five minutes of the old lady’s abuse, my Salvadorean friend said, “The problem is not that the old lady doesn’t understand English. The problem is that she’s crazy.”

I convinced my friend to pay the old lady and get his shoes and leave. But now she wouldn’t accept his money. She turned her back to us and sat chatting away with her friend, pretending we didn’t exist. After realizing that her plan was to continue ignoring us until we left, I said, “”M’am, we’ve been reasonable, we’ve been patient, he’s offered to pay you and you still won’t return the shoes. If you return the shoes now, you will not have to pay for the damage that someone has done to the shoes while they were in your possession.” She stopped talking for a moment, looked at me and said “No,” then resumed her conversation.

Fine. I asked my friend if he felt comfortable singing for his shoes. He did, and we began performing full throated a capella versions of every up tempo hymn we knew. After about fifteen minutes his voice started weakening, so I carried on solo and switched to George Jones, which I know a lot better than hymns. I could tell the old lady’s resolve was beginning to waver. Drunks were wandering in to see what the hubbub was, and would be customers were opening the door, then quickly closing it without entering. Finally, after what I thought was a rather good rendition of “He Stopped Loving Her Today,” complete with spoken recitation, I paused and said “M’am, I’m about to crack open the Hank Williams songbook. I expect I have thirty or so of old Hank’s tunes memorized, so I’d advise y’all to get comfortable because this is going to take a while.”

“No,” she said. “No. Take the shoes and leave.” Which we did, after thanking her for returning the shoes.
Complete and total props Eugene. Sorry about your friend's shoes.
This would not happen in Mt. Pleasante Towne Centre.
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mm



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Mount Pleasant & Park

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kelly5612 wrote:

Regarding prop owners, no one's expecting them to rent at lower-than-market rates; the point is they're currently attempting to rent at rates higher than the market can bear. Hence the -- what? six? -- vacancies on Mt. Pleasant Street. When's the last time anyone saw that?

And yet the shoe repair shop remains. Go figure.


I'm not sure exactly what the last point you're trying to make is. Have you ever been to the shoe repair shop? They do a good job, for not a lot of money and they're friendly. Given the photos that are in there, I'm sure they've had their lease for a while, so their rent is probably pretty low; still, I don't see the point of bashing the existing businesses if they can make a living (which they must be doing, or else they would have closed, too), especially given there are plenty of vacancies for new ones to come into as it is.

Edit: just read Eugene's post. Sorry to hear about that. But my wife has had probably close to ten pairs of shoes repaired in there over the last few years, and never had any problem (though they don't always find them as quickly as you might want when you come back to pick them up).
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