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Mount Pleasant DC Forum
Discussion about the Mount Pleasant Neighborhood
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jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4416
Location: 19th & Lamont
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 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: Newton Street traffic |
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| Jennrgolden wrote: | This is a hot button topic for me. I lurk on this board and don't say much until I'm fuming. I try to tone my rehttoric bec. of that... As I've said before I live on this street and suffer this (explitive) traffic daily with my 2 year old and 4 year olds in tow - typically with groceries and bags and the whole lot and the cars and traffic and flow is getting to me. htey don't stop to let us cross...they block the intersection turning. Most of this congestion I experience is in the morning hours (not certain of afternoon - that's my husband rotation/duty w/the kids) and is the intersection of 17th/Newton where the traffic comes down newton from 16th as well as up from Piney branch AND down the one-way poriton of 17th...they all converge on that intersection and no one is nice.
BTW, we have stopped parking on newton street because we can't get out of our parking spot in the mornings thanks to this horrible congestion. Whatever the fix is I don't know...but something's gotta give..PLEASE! |
I tried hard to fix this notorious problem. I proposed that a short portion of 17th Street, below the residences on the west side of the road, be made one-way northbound (matching the direction of 17th Street south of Newton). That would surely put a stop to the morning commuter traffic using 17th and Newton for a cut-through.
The residents of 17th Street said "no way". This was going to be an inconvenience for some of them.
I tried also to get southbound 16th Street at Newton to be "no right turn, 7-9 AM", to prevent the use of Newton as their cut-through, bypassing the congestion on Park Road. That got another "no way", this time from residents of the 1600 block of Newton, who asserted that this would be an inconvenience for them (in the morning?).
I arranged for our traffic study of 2008-2009 to evaluate 17th-Street cut-through traffic (attached). They agreed that there might be a problem (!), but had no advice for it.
Speed humps aren't really helpful, perhaps slowing traffic, but not eliminating the cut-through commuters. Every morning I see traffic backups on 19th Street, north of Park Road, and I know where those cars are coming from. They're mainly commuters, zipping down Newton to bypass congestion on Park Road, or on Piney Branch at Beach Drive.
It's very frustrating to try to bring about solutions to this problem, only to have residents object, because anything we do might impede their favorite routes home.
-- Jack |
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Jennrgolden
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Newton St
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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quite frustrating Jack, indeed. I'll assure you I was NOT one of the "no way" residents opposed to making 17th between Piney Branch and Newton one way.
The other factor at play in support of making that stretch one way is the dangerous curves and speeds with which folks drive through there...for safety-sake that stretch should be one way for both drivers and pedestrians!
Is it possible to renew this plea for a one-way stretch. Change this dramatic is always a fight but people find a way around it. that's not the only way into our neighborhood. it would be an inconvenience for me and my family but nothing dramatic.
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- Jenn |
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jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4416
Location: 19th & Lamont
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: 17th Street cut-through traffic |
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| Jennrgolden wrote: | quite frustrating Jack, indeed. I'll assure you I was NOT one of the "no way" residents opposed to making 17th between Piney Branch and Newton one way.
The other factor at play in support of making that stretch one way is the dangerous curves and speeds with which folks drive through there...for safety-sake that stretch should be one way for both drivers and pedestrians!
Is it possible to renew this plea for a one-way stretch. Change this dramatic is always a fight but people find a way around it. that's not the only way into our neighborhood. it would be an inconvenience for me and my family but nothing dramatic. |
It was a few residents of 17th Street who were adamant against any such one-way provision, even though it wouldn't affect their in-and-out via Newton, nor their exit via Piney Branch. Shoot, even a "no left turn, 7-9 AM" from Piney Branch onto 17th was shot down. People want their problems solved, but they won't tolerate any inconvenience to solve them.
Commuters are a menace, in a hurry to get to their jobs, and impatient with anything getting in their way. They should be confined to proper commuter routes, and kept off residential streets. That's why you see rush-hour no-turn signs in many places, adjacent to commuter routes. Commuters discover these clever save-ten-seconds bypasses, and race down residential streets, uncaring about the consequences for those residents.
As I recall, the traffic on your block comes from three directions, roughly equally distributed: up 17th and right onto Newton; down 16th and right onto Newton; or directly across 16th, from Newton Street in Columbia Heights. So even making a portion of 17th one-way wouldn't entirely solve your morning-commuter problem.
-- Jack |
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dsachdev
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Are there any good suggestions on how to move forward now to fix this problem - or Jack, do you believe based on the attempts that you have already made that it is wasted effort.
Unfortunately I don't know many of the neighbors on the block of 17th street that you said were opposed to the solution that you provided - but it does sound like limiting the traffic in the a.m. from Piney Branch would be good. |
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jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4416
Location: 19th & Lamont
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Commuter traffic on Newton Street |
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| dsachdev wrote: | Are there any good suggestions on how to move forward now to fix this problem - or Jack, do you believe based on the attempts that you have already made that it is wasted effort.
Unfortunately I don't know many of the neighbors on the block of 17th street that you said were opposed to the solution that you provided - but it does sound like limiting the traffic in the a.m. from Piney Branch would be good. |
Perhaps the best we could do at this time would be to request speed humps on Newton, especially in front of Bancroft. That process begins with a petition showing strong block-resident support.
-- Jack |
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dsachdev
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Commuter traffic on Newton Street |
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At this point in time I would support this. What do others on this thread think?
| jack wrote: | | dsachdev wrote: | Are there any good suggestions on how to move forward now to fix this problem - or Jack, do you believe based on the attempts that you have already made that it is wasted effort.
Unfortunately I don't know many of the neighbors on the block of 17th street that you said were opposed to the solution that you provided - but it does sound like limiting the traffic in the a.m. from Piney Branch would be good. |
Perhaps the best we could do at this time would be to request speed humps on Newton, especially in front of Bancroft. That process begins with a petition showing strong block-resident support.
-- Jack |
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Jennrgolden
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Newton St
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Commuter traffic on Newton Street |
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I support this as well.
| dsachdev wrote: | At this point in time I would support this. What do others on this thread think?
| jack wrote: | | dsachdev wrote: | Are there any good suggestions on how to move forward now to fix this problem - or Jack, do you believe based on the attempts that you have already made that it is wasted effort.
Unfortunately I don't know many of the neighbors on the block of 17th street that you said were opposed to the solution that you provided - but it does sound like limiting the traffic in the a.m. from Piney Branch would be good. |
Perhaps the best we could do at this time would be to request speed humps on Newton, especially in front of Bancroft. That process begins with a petition showing strong block-resident support.
-- Jack |
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jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4416
Location: 19th & Lamont
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dsachdev
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Jack...now that I finally have a bit of time, I will read over it, and see if I can get the process started. Another thing I noticed today is that the drivers essentially want to turn Newton into a one-way street in the mornings, and don't care if there is someone trying to head the other way near Bancroft....
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dsachdev
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I do wonder about this given the nursing home that is in the 1800 block of Newton:
The street must NOT be a primary emergency vehicle route (such as a main approach to a hospital or fire house)
| dsachdev wrote: | Thanks Jack...now that I finally have a bit of time, I will read over it, and see if I can get the process started. Another thing I noticed today is that the drivers essentially want to turn Newton into a one-way street in the mornings, and don't care if there is someone trying to head the other way near Bancroft....
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MPHS
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 91
Location: irving St
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Tell me how a speed bump alleviates a congestion problem? In fact, if it is already slow and congested, doesn't that suggest that there's not a better alternative and that perhaps it is not a shortcut?
I think the treatment doesn't address the symptom. |
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jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4416
Location: 19th & Lamont
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: Newton Street traffic |
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| dsachdev wrote: | I do wonder about this given the nursing home that is in the 1800 block of Newton:
The street must NOT be a primary emergency vehicle route (such as a main approach to a hospital or fire house)
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No, that's not an issue here. There's not that much ambulance traffic to Stoddard. It's not an emergency facility.
Speed humps are effectively speed bumps (such as you see in parking lots) for vehicles with wheelbases longer than the hump. So they're deadly for fire engines and ambulances, and that's why there can be none on Park Road, despite the frequent complaints of excessive speed there.
You really don't want that fire engine coming to your house to have to come to a near-stop to get over speed humps.
-- Jack |
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dsachdev
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Between the hours of 5:30 a.m. and roughly 7 a.m. it is treated as a raceway....the congestion happens as we get into the heart of rush hour, so there is more then one problem going on here.
| MPHS wrote: | Tell me how a speed bump alleviates a congestion problem? In fact, if it is already slow and congested, doesn't that suggest that there's not a better alternative and that perhaps it is not a shortcut?
I think the treatment doesn't address the symptom. |
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jack
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4416
Location: 19th & Lamont
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: Newton Street traffic |
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| MPHS wrote: | Tell me how a speed bump alleviates a congestion problem? In fact, if it is already slow and congested, doesn't that suggest that there's not a better alternative and that perhaps it is not a shortcut?
I think the treatment doesn't address the symptom. |
It's not "congested" -- if it were, then it wouldn't be such a magnet for cut-through traffic. Trouble is, it's faster than other routes, e.g., Piney Branch at the Beach Drive intersection, and Park Road from 16th Street. So way too many drivers speed down Newton Street every morning, bypassing the congestion on those other routes.
In short, the principal complaint is speed, and too many cars speeding past Bancroft Elementary in the morning. Not congestion. So indeed, speed humps are the appropriate answer, though everyone should know that I'm no great fan of the things. Put speed humps on one block, and drivers may be diverted to hump-free blocks. So then you've got to put speed humps on the other blocks. Pretty soon every street in the neighborhood will have to have speed humps.
It would be nice to prevent the use of this route altogether by these morning commuters, but I have yet to find a means of doing that that is acceptable to all the residents of the area.
-- Jack |
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MPHS
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 91
Location: irving St
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Yes, congestion. At least in my experience. But, nothing compared to southbound 16th St in the am commute hours, or, oddly, on Saturday and Sunday afternoons.
Speed bumps will rattle your homes, and generate a lot of stop and go noise, so be careful what you wish for. |
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